Legal Titles

THIS WEBSITE IS TO HELP YOU AVOID BEING SCAMMED BY MANORIAL COUNSEL LTD AND OTHER PLATFORMS AND COMPANIES

NONE OF THE TITLES ON THEIR PLATFORM ARE GENUINE

Manorial Counsel Ltd search the internet for what appears to be dormant titles of Lord of the Manor and Feudal Baronies. While many titles appear 'dormant', they often belong to someone. Just because the manorial records have stopped being lodged, doesn't mean that no one owns the title. Quite often a title remains within a family, or the church has it, or a trust, or a charity, some have been returned to the Crown, Universities hold hundreds of titles. Families of Nobility (Dukes, Earls, Barons) hold hundreds of titles and many are escheat (returned to the Crown). A title needs to be researched fully.

Manorial Counsel ltd will spin a convincing story that their solicitors can apply new rights to a claimed title? What new rights? Only the Crown can issue new rights, not a solicitor or barrister. Don't be fooled. New rights cannot be applied (unless the title is a Possessory Title, and then the two new rights are under the possessions laws, however these are not titles as such. They are simply using the title name in Quiet Enjoyment. That is not a title, it is just the use of a title name).

It is always wise to instruct your own solicitor before parting with money for a manorial or feudal title.

If you were to purchase a plot of land or woodland or a property, you would not use the vendors solicitors as there would be a conflict of interest. You would need to instruct your own solicitors. Manorial titles are no different. A genuine title is classed as property. Therefore, before parting with a lot of money, would it not be wise to instruct an independent solicitor? Manorial Counsel ltd solicitors Hattons, work for Manorial Counsel Ltd and most certainly not any of their clients. This is why everyone who has purchased a title from manorial Counsel Ltd has been ripped off and none hold a genuine title

Manorial Counsel tries to convince people that all their titles are legal because of three solicitors confirming ownership? This is a complete fabrication of the truth however. There is sufficient evidence already to show that Manorial Counsels solicitors have acted fraudulently with placing notices on the Gazette and fraudulent entries on Wikipedia for the fictitious Barony of North Cadbury

Manorial Counsel does not sell titles which hold a complete set of deeds. They sell extremely dubious titles which they do not own, but rather have assumed. (For a 'possessory title with the Covenant of Quiet Enjoyment, there are specific legal procedures to follow) They then sell them under the term of 'Quiet Enjoyment'. They don't have any legal right to sell a title as genuine, which they do not own and cannot prove in a court of law that they own (a previous case tested this in court and the defendant who wanted to be referred to by his title name, was refused by the judge). Therefore, the purchaser is buying the right to use the name, they are not buying a lordship. Just a name. That's an awful lot of money to pay for a name.

Then their complicit solicitors. Hattons, register a purchaser's dubious title on the Gazette. The notices are fraudulent as Manorial Counsel do not own any titles. The holder has the use of the name only. A Gazette notice should be for those titles which hold a complete set of deeds and not titles of the possessory nature of 'Quiet Enjoyment'

This is an important case in relation to full lordship titles. A full lordship title is where the full set of deed of holders are in place dating back to when the title was created.

(2010 - Burton v Walker - Proof of Ownership)

This refers to the following law:

"In 2010 a land mark case Burton v Walker made it clear that the law would only support a proof of ownership using a full set of deeds dating back to the 3rd of September 1189 or at least the latest 1290 if the lordship was created after 1189"

As you can see, the law does not support any full lordship title where there is not a full set of deeds. None of the platforms detailed in the eBook sell genuine full lordship titles because none can supply the full set of deeds. Under the law a full lordship title without the full set of deeds is only worth a couple of thousand pounds at most.

Manorial Titles are being sold under the following pretexes:

• Full Lordship Manorial Titles with a full set of deeds dating back to a title's creation. These are rare!
• Titles sold under the Possession Laws. These are titles in name only. They are not the lordship. They are 'Quiet Enjoyment' of the title name.
• Titles created with fictitious or cloned names. These are not genuine or real titles.
• Trademark Titles. These are in name only.

1./ A Full Lordship manorial title with a full set of deeds dating back to when it was created requires professional research. Each previous holder's deed of ownership needs to be located (generally in an archive) and the reference number as proof that they exist. There has to be an unbroken chain of deeds dating all the way back, some 800 years, to the title's creation.

A full set of deeds, say from the 15th century, to present time, does not make a title a genuine full lordship title. Manorial titles were not created in the 15th century. Titles were created in the 10th, 11th and part of the 12th centuries

For a manorial title to be a genuine full lordship the full set of deeds of holders, in an unbroken chain is required, anything less than that - then the title cannot be recognised as being legally held by its current owner.

2. Titles sold under the "Possession" laws are legal titles in name only. Specific legal procedures have to be followed in order for these titles to be genuine. They are not worth a lot of money. A few hundred pounds at most.

3./ Titles created with fictitious or cloned names? A few companies/platforms sell these. Whilst it's not illegal, it is illegal to sell a fictitious or cloned title as genuine, when it clearly is not. A made-up name will not have any history attached.

If a simple "yahoo" or "google" search brings up nothing after typing in the search box – "Lord of the Manor of xxxxxx ", then that is a clear indication that a title does not exist and therefore is a "Micky Mouse" title, and there are certainly lots of those out there. When I say 'nothing comes up' I am referring to official records such as British-History, National Archives, Land registry etc, and not private websites and social media pages.

These titles do not hold any value other than that of novelty value.

4./ Trademark Titles. A trademark name needs to be a unique name. Under the rules of the Governments trademark service a name has to be unique. An 800-year-old manorial name is not unique.

Possessory Titles

The name "Possessory Title" is our own terminology which fits these kinds of titles exactly. It is not to be confused with "Possessory Titles" that apply to the Adverse Possession of Land or Property. Those are completely different.

Possessory titles of 'Quiet Enjoyment' are not the actual Lordships. It is use of a name only (in Quiet Enjoyment) and the holder does not own the historical documents held in archives for a title. A possessory title is not a manorial title as such, it is pretence of holding one. It is simply 'Quiet Enjoyment' of a name

The "Gazette" entry for each of the titles Manorial Counsel sell is carefully worded by their company solicitor using the words of - (by legal process)

"Legal Process" relates to how they have sold a title.

Like other platforms, they hide behind the words of "Intellectual Property" in order to avoid mentioning how they acquired a title in order to sell it.

Other titles however, have been acquired under the "Possession Laws", although the directors will vehemently say that's not how they are created?

The clues are there on their website. Plus, we have copies of their legal documents/contract that they issue to clients and their solicitor's letters.

As one example of a title sold by one of these platforms, which we have researched, you will see what we mean about being careful with your money. The name of the title in question is "Lord of the Manor of Doddiscombe in the parish of Bampton in the county of Devon.

It was sold without any history? Research showed that indeed, there is very little history. Most of the information about this manorial title is on Facebook and is inaccurate information on other private websites. None of the information is cross-referenced with official sources. Official sources being British-History, manorial records, parish records, Land Registry etc and referenced to the specific files that the information has come from. There is an entry on the "Gazette" by the solicitor pf Manorial Counsel with the magic words of (by legal process). The information on Facebook however, is totally inaccurate.

There are no records of this manor through the reliable channels of manorial records, national archives, british-history, land registry or any of the universities historical departments.

Now, under the search of "Bampton in Devon" - Doddiscombe is mentioned, but only under the banner of farms and manors. It is likely that it was once a manor but without manorial administration.

However, there was a Bampton Manor of Doddiscombe which did held a Lord of the Manor title and administration.

There is not a Lord of the Manor of Doddiscombe, this is fictitious.

The actual lordship is with Bampton Manor Doddiscombe and Lord of the Manor of Doddiscombsleigh

Manorial Counsel does not show within their legal sales documentation how they acquired any title, you need to be very cautious as those legal documents are of no value without that information. Irrespective of what their solicitors have to say. Be wary of those who say, "We can't give that information as it is intellectual property". This is complete rubbish as these companies do not have any intellectual property.

Some time ago there was a case in a crown court of a defendant who wanted to be referred to by his manorial title. The judge asked for sight of the legal documents that came with the title. The defendant said that his title was registered on the "Gazette" and that he had solicitor's letters confirming his title and he presented the paperwork he had received from the company which sold him the manorial title (Manorial Counsel). The judge, together with the prosecution barrister ridiculed the paperwork and said that the paperwork from the company did not show how that company had acquired the title. The judge added that in the absence of details of how the company acquired the title it is questionable if the company had the right to sell it. The paperwork did not show that the defendant was the legal owner of the title. The court refused to refer to him by his title name. The judge also added that the documents were poorly written and not written in the correct legal format.

BARONETCIES

There are a number of people who love to call themselves Baron before their name. It is so easy to find out if they are a genuine Baron by referring to the Official Baronetage Rolls. It is illegal in actual fact. Why?

The Royal Warrant of Edward VII of the 8th February 1910 states:

"no person whose name is not entered on the Official Roll shall be received as a Baronet, or shall be addressed or mentioned by that title in any civil or military Commission, Letters Patent or other official document"

Holders of genuine Baronetcies who have died, but in each case, up to the 31st December 2022, no person has proved succession and thus Baronetcies are either "Dormant" (Baronet died in 2007 or earlier) or "Vacant" (Baronet died in 2018 or later). This has been taken from the Official Baronetage Roll)

There has to be a provable succession in order to claim a Dormant or Vacant genuine Baronet title and as yet, no one has been able to do that. According to the Official Baronetage Roll.

What is being sold is the 'Quiet Enjoyment' of a manorial name. That is all.

If you pay thousands for such a title you would not get your money back if you wanted to sell it at some point.

The same is for Feudal Barony titles in name only. You will be ripped off. Be very careful. If you are unsure then I do give free advice. Consult an independent solicitor.

When buying a high price title, it would be advisable for you to instruct your own solicitor instead of using a solicitor of the company you are considering buying from. You would not buy a house or flat and use the same solicitor as the vendor. The vendors solicitor would tell you to instruct another otherwise there would be a conflict of interest. Why then use the solicitor/s of a company selling dubious manorial titles????? Why trust them????? Those solicitors are working for that company, they are not working for you as the purchaser.

With Manorial Counsel ltd wouldn't it be a good idea if you were interested in purchasing a title from them, to instruct your own solicitor to contact the relevant company/platform about the title that you are interested in and see how that company/platform replies? Of course, any solicitor, other than these companies/platforms solicitors would advise you not to purchase.

It is always best to instruct an independent solicitor.

Don't trust any solicitor working for Manorial Counsel ltd, they will not be working for you as the purchaser. They will be working for Manorial Counsel.

Remember that genuine titles fetch these values:

Lord of the Manor from £7,500

Feudal Barony (England) from £100,000

Feudal Barony (Scotland) from £90,000

Feudal Earldom (England) …at least £2 million

So, any platform/company making out that their titles are genuine and selling below the prices above are imply o0ut to rip you off.

Always seek the advice of an independent solicitor. You certainly cannot trust Hattons solicitors who are complicit in the scam sales of titles by Manorial Counsel Ltd